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Thread: No pull ups

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    Default No pull ups

    Hey guys, I can not do very much pull ups. what the best thing I can do to hit my back and shoulders to build me up so I can start doing pull ups.

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    Hey Bamapath there are various exercises u can use to build your back one of the big one is the Deadlift or you can do bent over barbell Rows, dumbell rows, for shoulder check the videos pages on top of this page to give you instuctionals.
    Keep on Lifting!

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    Here is an article by Tom Venuto to read:

    http://www.intense-workout.com/pull_ups.html

    I also suggest doing Rack Chins. They work the lats really well.
    My favorite part of lifting is having the opportunity
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    If you train in a gym with an assistance machine you can do assisted pull ups with a portion of your body weight offset. Start with an amount of offset that allows you to do pull ups, then gradually over the coming weeks decrease the offset weight until you can rep your bodyweight.

    You can also throw in some negatives until you get strong enough to pull your body weight.
    "Look son, there comes a time in every man's life when he has to make a decision. Do you want to be big, powerful, jacked, yoked-up, have women everywhere want you and men fear you . . . or do you want to do CrossFit?"

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    Do pull ups... Best exercise for upper and middle part of back...

    Maybe You have in Your gym pull up machine... Work on it, try, step by step to decreese additional weight... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwwlc8xUJDE

    Also try to do pull ups with help assistent, when asssitent keep You by feet (not by weight)

    Or rubber band assisted, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw3FnkqViKo, or like that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzRaX...ture=endscreen

    Or even maybe with helping chair... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HHZAnKFD-U

    But dont miss pull ups during back routine. I had very big problem, my back didnt want to grow, people spoke "pull ups are not foe woman"... I tried to find solution, and I started to work pull ups... Wide grip... In first moment I was not able to do one, but guys in gy helped me, I used asisting machine, and after few months I use to perform first, for few weeks second etc... and finnaly I notice back development progress, specially on latisimus...

    So try... Believe in yourself and you will make it
    TRAIN HARD OR GO HOME.. NO PAIN NO GAIN

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    Quote Originally Posted by MC View Post
    If you train in a gym with an assistance machine you can do assisted pull ups with a portion of your body weight offset. Start with an amount of offset that allows you to do pull ups, then gradually over the coming weeks decrease the offset weight until you can rep your bodyweight.

    You can also throw in some negatives until you get strong enough to pull your body weight.
    This is exactly what I would suggest too

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    I too struggle with PU's...there are two things I have been doing which have helped - I bought a door-jam bar to use at random while at home, and I do negative reps - holding as long as possible (10-15secs)
    I don't lift to compete or to get huge; I lift to be strong, fit and look effin' sexy!

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    Another vote for negatives. I see people progress much faster to unassisted pull-ups by doing negatives than by using a machine or working the lat pulldown with the intention of it carrying over. During the eccentric (negative) part of a movement you're 30-40% stronger than the concentric part, but bear in mind training in this fashion tends to do more damage to muscle fibres, so expect worse DOMS.
    Last edited by SnuffSaid; 01-17-2012 at 05:07 PM.

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    Yup, rock the slow negs until you get stronger.
    The weights are not ur friends. If fact they f'ing hate u. They think ur their b!tch. They mock u every time u can't complete a rep. Now go smash the sh!t out of 'em! - Me

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    If you look at it, a pull-up is pretty much mechanically the same thing as a pull-down. I've had really solid success in the past using pull-downs to help get me strong enough to increase my pull-up count.

    Also, I've noticed that most often people can pull themselves up from the dead hang to about the midway point, and if they get passed that they can usually pull the rest of the way. So I used to use really heavy lat pull downs to work that middle third of the ROM to gain added strength through that sticking point.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by HKDIron; 01-17-2012 at 06:32 PM. Reason: spelling.... its important...
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKDIron View Post
    If you look at it, a pull-up is pretty much mechanically the same thing as a pull-down. I've had really solid success in the past using pull-downs to help get me strong enough to increase my pull-up count.

    Also, I've noticed that most often people can pull themselves up from the dead hang to about the midway point, and if they get passed that they can usually pull the rest of the way. So I used to use really heavy lat pull downs to work that middle third of the ROM to gain added strength through that sticking point.

    Hope that helps.
    Lat pulldowns certainly won't hurt, but expecting a significant carry over would be expecting a lot, sort of like hoping an increase in your leg press will carry over to your squat. An 80kg man who can lat pulldown 80kg can not necessarily pull his own bodyweight up to meet a bar. To get better at functional exercises that you can't perform unassisted I'd still say your best bet would be to work on the eccentric portion of the lift/movement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnuffSaid View Post
    Lat pulldowns certainly won't hurt, but expecting a significant carry over would be expecting a lot, sort of like hoping an increase in your leg press will carry over to your squat. An 80kg man who can lat pulldown 80kg can not necessarily pull his own bodyweight up to meet a bar. To get better at functional exercises that you can't perform unassisted I'd still say your best bet would be to work on the eccentric portion of the lift/movement.
    So you're saying if I get really good at leg presses, using your example, I wont see any real benefit in my squat? I'm sorry but I have to disagree - respectfully mind you, lol.

    No, its not a one-to-one, meaning if I can leg press 1000 pounds I certainly cant expect to squat 1k... but leg strength is leg strength. In your example the disconnect comes in the fact that my torso has to support the weight I'm squatting instead of just my hips and legs.

    In terms of lat pulls to improve pull ups, its much more direct. Getting to a 240 pound lat pull, for example, will certainly help improve pull-ups. I usually did my pull ups first until I wasnt strong enough to do them well, then hit the lat pull and really work myself thoroughly. I went from 6 pull ups to 12 doing that... I'd have to call that significant.
    The worth of a thing lies not in what it is but in what it may be come.

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    No worries, disagreements happen, haha.

    An example though, I've personally seen one person get their leg press up to 250lbs, never having done a freeweight squat in their life, when they finally did, they were forced to use 130lbs.

    I do agree there is differing shades of it though, a squat is much more different and complex in relation to the leg press than a lat pulldown is to a pull-up, but I still think that functional movements in general can only be partially improved by strengthening individual muscles.

    Here's an article about what I was driving at, although there is a better one that I couldn't find that specifically mentions lat pulldowns and pull-ups. My Google skills fail me.

    http://coachfong.wordpress.com/tag/functional-training/

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnuffSaid View Post
    No worries, disagreements happen, haha.

    An example though, I've personally seen one person get their leg press up to 250lbs, never having done a freeweight squat in their life, when they finally did, they were forced to use 130lbs.

    I do agree there is differing shades of it though, a squat is much more different and complex in relation to the leg press than a lat pulldown is to a pull-up, but I still think that functional movements in general can only be partially improved by strengthening individual muscles.

    Here's an article about what I was driving at, although there is a better one that I couldn't find that specifically mentions lat pulldowns and pull-ups. My Google skills fail me.

    http://coachfong.wordpress.com/tag/functional-training/
    Dontcha HATE that?? You know its there, you've seen it, read it and yet when you need it it pulls a bigfoot on ya (meaning YOU know you saw one even though you can't prove it to save your life). No worries man, I believe ya. You'll find the article right about the time I stop showing up here, lol, cause thats the way it works

    I think I see where you're going more and I also think I disagree less than I did
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    Aye, Murphy's law, haha.

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    Well I agree with HKDIron. I just had this same discussion in another thread recently. I too couldn't do squat for pullups. I hit the lat pulldowns for a while until I progressed enough to pull around my weight. Then I moved back into pullups and dropped the lat pulldowns.

    Maybe it's not the best option for everyone but it most certainly will help a person build muscle and get them closer to doing pullups. I really don't see why everyone seems to have such an aversion to pulldowns, but to each there own.

    The other thing I noted in that thread is that usually in the gyms I go to there is only one assisted pullup machine yet 3 lat pull stations. Makes it alot easier to put your work in. Plus negatives might be really hard for some weaker people to even attempt.
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    I did negatives before I could do proper pull-ups. What that means is that I would jump up and hold myself up on the bar in the up position, then slowly let myself down, the do them in 4 sets of 5, then sets of 10. I would then finish up with a couple of sets of lat pull-downs as heavy as I could go for a couple sets of 4-6 reps.

    Now I do pull ups for sets of ten at 215 lbs.

    Here was my back day...
    4 sets of 5-10 pull-up Negatives
    2 sets of heavy lat pull downs for 4-6
    Dead lifts *1 Warm Up* then 3x10
    Body Weight Rows 3x10 *I generally keep my legs board straight though*
    Close Grip rows 3x10
    Good Mornings 3x10
    Worked pretty good man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandaholic View Post
    Well I agree with HKDIron. I just had this same discussion in another thread recently. I too couldn't do squat for pullups. I hit the lat pulldowns for a while until I progressed enough to pull around my weight. Then I moved back into pullups and dropped the lat pulldowns.

    Maybe it's not the best option for everyone but it most certainly will help a person build muscle and get them closer to doing pullups. I really don't see why everyone seems to have such an aversion to pulldowns, but to each there own.

    The other thing I noted in that thread is that usually in the gyms I go to there is only one assisted pullup machine yet 3 lat pull stations. Makes it alot easier to put your work in. Plus negatives might be really hard for some weaker people to even attempt.
    I wasn't meaning to say lat pulldowns weren't an option to progress onto pull-ups, but rather that in my experience people who went down the road of negatives tended to progress to unassisted pull-ups the fastest. If your proportional strength is too low to perform negatives, then yes, assisted pull-ups or lat pulldowns will be perfectly viable alternatives. But once those people were pulling around 60% of their bodyweight on the machines I'd still advise them to start attempting negatives.

    Just my opinion though, of course. Whatever works for you.

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    Dumb question, When you guys talk about negatives, what are you referring to negatives. I am also weak in Pull Ups, so I am doing Pull Downs to strengthen my shoulder and back and triceps

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    As described above my post, a negative is the eccentric part of a movement, concentric being the positive part. In simpler terms, pulling yourself up to the bar is concentric, lowering yourself back down in a controlled manner is eccentric (negative). You're upto 40% stronger during the negative part of a movement, so it's likely that if you're not quite strong enough for a pull-up, you could still perform a negative.

    Simply jump up to a bar and hold yourself in the top position of a pull-up, then lower yourself as slowly as possible to the bottom position; don't just let go. That's one rep. When you can perform a few full pull ups, you can then finish your set with negatives.

    tl;dr - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opr72q6NKTc (instructional video)
    Last edited by SnuffSaid; 01-18-2012 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Correction

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    Thanks for explanation Snuffsaid

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnuffSaid View Post
    I wasn't meaning to say lat pulldowns weren't an option to progress onto pull-ups, but rather that in my experience people who went down the road of negatives tended to progress to unassisted pull-ups the fastest. If your proportional strength is too low to perform negatives, then yes, assisted pull-ups or lat pulldowns will be perfectly viable alternatives. But once those people were pulling around 60% of their bodyweight on the machines I'd still advise them to start attempting negatives.

    Just my opinion though, of course. Whatever works for you.
    Just to be clear, I think negatives are a tremendously valuable tool for nearly anything, not just pull ups. You make an important distinction though, one which I feel is worth addressing.

    Its easy to sit here on line and recommend this or that based on our personal experience but as you touched on, the proper tool for the job depends on the level of experience and ability the user has. For those that are strong enough, negatives and even partials are great tools to start with, but if you're not strong enough for those, then the lat pull or assisted pullup might be the best place to start. It really depends on the individual.

    Great point!
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    Thanks guys for all the info. I do not have a gym membership. so all will be done at home. I have been doing pull down with bands and I have been doing many sets. close grip, wide grip. I will start adding negs to my work out. thanks again for the help

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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaPath View Post
    Thanks guys for all the info. I do not have a gym membership. so all will be done at home. I have been doing pull down with bands and I have been doing many sets. close grip, wide grip. I will start adding negs to my work out. thanks again for the help
    Hooked on negs worked for me! LOL

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    Thanks a lot

 

 

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