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    Default The Total Package...?

    Is kettlebell training really all that it is cracked up to be, supplying strength paired with cardio, stability, and metabolic conditioning all in one workout? What have you heard?

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    M&S Elite Member Chrismazur814's Avatar
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    its like one of those all in one things. It works everything but to what degree. Kettlebell weight training will never be as effective as ordinary weight training. Kettlebell cardio will never be as effective as ordinary cardio. Just my opinion.
    Stats: Bench- 315, Squat- 440, Deadlift- 530, 6'4", 215lbs
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    It's fun, but not for everyone. I like doing things like one arm snatches, and I use swings in between treadmill sprints when doing HIIT.
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    Regular Poster OnTheHustle's Avatar
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    I do bells after almost every workout. and yes, it does hit all the catagories mentioned. It's no replacement for gaining mass but is a killer workout and add on.
    The weights are not ur friends. If fact they f'ing hate u. They think ur their b!tch. They mock u every time u can't complete a rep. Now go smash the sh!t out of 'em! - Me

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    Kettlebells' Angel !!!! 5kgLifter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmetalguy View Post
    Is kettlebell training really all that it is cracked up to be, supplying strength paired with cardio, stability, and metabolic conditioning all in one workout? What have you heard?
    It depends what workout you do with them; they can be used for endurance and they can be used for strength...contrary to some opinions about kettlebells, they're just another weightload...90kgs is 90kgs no matter what the shape or medium.

    The fact that it has been reinvented as a new fad seems to bring out the worst in people because many just don't care for them which is fine but not a reason to dumb them down.

    The thing is, a kettlebell snatch is no the same as a dumbbell or even a barbell snatch; a kettlebell has a centre of gravity that does not lie directly above the joint but to the back of the arm, generally, and that throws a whole new focus on the movement. All weights are dangerous if not utilising proper technique when using, so they're no more or less dangerous than a barbell/dumbbell either; though, they are made to varying dimensions so caution is advisable when selecting one for use, unlike barbells and dumbbells which are generally of the same shape just with varying lengths which does not really affect the movement to any degree.


    I could be considered biased but I like barbell work as much as kettlebell work, so nah ...both are great and both work
    1-Finger Deadlift, 1RM: 80.3lbs/36.5kg

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    Seasoned M&S Veteran 0606196t's Avatar
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    Its all conditioning, and for some people its all they want, a bit leaner, a bit stronger, a bit more flexible, stable etc.

    I actually think for a lot of people there's great benefit from the work capacity side of it. The loads aren't massive (for typical workouts), but it allows for work in other areas of one's fitness. To be honest, I enjoyed it so much if I had more access I would probs give up on my strength routine. But that's just me. I use them, but for developing other aspects of my fitness.

    I do think there's over hype, and companies have been quick to dilute kettlebells to just swings. And the "gurus" have made it seem like kettlebells can do everything, like slice bread etc :P

    How you enjoy/success with kettlebells, will depend on how you learn to use it.
    Joseph - falling into the dark side of youtube occasionally

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    Kettlebells' Angel !!!! 5kgLifter's Avatar
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    Here's a vid showing strength usage:

    1-Finger Deadlift, 1RM: 80.3lbs/36.5kg

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    Seasoned M&S Veteran 0606196t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5kgLifter View Post
    Here's a vid showing strength usage:

    Lol my bit was just referring to the normal weight range. But yeah ^^
    Joseph - falling into the dark side of youtube occasionally

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    So you guys are saying that kettlebell training standing on its own is not enough?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmetalguy View Post
    So you guys are saying that kettlebell training standing on its own is not enough?
    What do you want? As in what are you trying to achieve?
    Joseph - falling into the dark side of youtube occasionally

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    Kettlebells' Angel !!!! 5kgLifter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmetalguy View Post
    So you guys are saying that kettlebell training standing on its own is not enough?
    Erm, nope, that's not what I'm saying I got a barbell first and KBs second, so it makes sense to use both and not have either sat around. But, a deadlift with 2 KBs is not the same as a deadlift with a barbell that's loaded up; however, a KB snatch is not the same as a barbell snatch...there are also some exercises such as the Tornado which can be done with a KB but not really safely with a heavy dumbbell.

    It depends what you're after and whether you want to use more than one style of weight...I mean, there are also Indian Clubbells but they don't appeal to me, though many others do use them (nobody on the forum, I don't think) and successfully for what they want.

    If you like KBs use them; if you like BBs, likewise, use them; if you want to mix it up, do so. No one training tool is a "complete" package but any one training tool can be enough and will inevitably get you to your goal, as long as you choose the right one. If you're after becoming a Powerlifter, then yes KBs can be used as assistance but the BB will be your mainstay...your goal will decide the tool/s required to get the job done.
    1-Finger Deadlift, 1RM: 80.3lbs/36.5kg

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    I know where I stand on kettlebells in that I am getting certified to teach them this summer, I was just seeing what the overall consensus was regarding them. Why does everyone view them as a fad that if they ignore kettlebells they will go away? The kettlebell is over 300 years old and people have attained great results using them alone. Certified Master level trainers like Gray Cook and Brett Jones developed one of the first and only methods for testing the movement screen effectively. Just looking for answers on why we are still underground in the world of strength...?

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    Seasoned M&S Veteran 0606196t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmetalguy View Post
    I know where I stand on kettlebells in that I am getting certified to teach them this summer, I was just seeing what the overall consensus was regarding them. Why does everyone view them as a fad that if they ignore kettlebells they will go away? The kettlebell is over 300 years old and people have attained great results using them alone. Certified Master level trainers like Gray Cook and Brett Jones developed one of the first and only methods for testing the movement screen effectively. Just looking for answers on why we are still underground in the world of strength...?
    I don't think they are underground for strength. RKC is spreading, the crossfit community uses them, girevoy sport grows, IKFF is big in Europe + Pacific.

    There's strength athletes e.g. Andrew Durniat, who competes in highland games, grip strength competitions was competitive in girevory sport

    In fact, kettlebells is very lucrative; consider Pavel's books, being certified for RKC, RKC seminars, there's a wide range of "kettlebell systems" e.g. Steve Maxwell, Art of Strength etc.

    I'm a massive fan of kettlebells! I believe there's massive benefits. But for more specific goals, let's say to get big + ripped, its not really the best way is it? Mike Mahler didn't think so in articles he's written. The programming would be tough and complicated.

    Further, not all people can get their hands on kettlebells, there's plenty of awful designs out there. So is it essential to use them?

    Kettlebell mainstream marketing IMO, seems to talk a lot about functional strength, being strong but not bulky etc. Honestly, some folk aren't interested in doing a super heavy turkish get up, or a pistol squat. I admire Steve Cotter for doing jumping pistol squats, but its not really functional to what I do.

    So regarding how people have used kettlebell for hundreds of years with great results, so has results of people who use other tools. Strongmen have used sledges and stone loading for a workout, surely to be stronger doesn't demand I need to make atlas stones etc.

    I think what people view as a fad, is how its meant to render other tools obsolete, how the benefits of "functional strength" is everyone's goal, and how its meant to blowtorch fat.

    IMO, for powerlifters, snatching hundreds of reps is as important for a kettlebell person deadlifting 300kg, goals are just different.

    Different modalities of training can be combined, but doesn't mean one has too.
    Joseph - falling into the dark side of youtube occasionally

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    I'm not attacking other systems here though, just stating that I feel that kettlebells offer a bigger "bang for the buck" than some barbell training does. Personally, I feel a kettlebell front squat is far more functional than a barbell front squat. However, I also feel that a barbell bench is far more functional than a kettlebell floor press. Each has its place...BUT

    Kettlebells are by far the best complex machine ever invented, if you are into that kind of thing. Kettlebells allow you to flow from one exercise to the next seamlessly, getting the most taxing metabolic conditioning workout.

    Joseph: I agree RKC is building ground (what I am going to certify in), but crossfit does have much more of a following. the Hardstyle of kettlebells is still obsolete compared to what is considered "mainstream."

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    Watchin what yer doin! tadolfi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmetalguy View Post
    I know where I stand on kettlebells in that I am getting certified to teach them this summer, I was just seeing what the overall consensus was regarding them. Why does everyone view them as a fad that if they ignore kettlebells they will go away? The kettlebell is over 300 years old and people have attained great results using them alone. Certified Master level trainers like Gray Cook and Brett Jones developed one of the first and only methods for testing the movement screen effectively. Just looking for answers on why we are still underground in the world of strength...?
    I have preference for bars and dumbells because I am more comfortable with those and don't like a lot of change.

    However, I work with a guy that has an athletic build and has been using KettleBells for a few years exclusively. He has told me that he had some back problems when doing free weights and that they never bother him in kettlebell training.

    I've "played" with the training and will say that you feel it throughout the body when you move, so perhaps it has to do with the whole isolation factor you can get from free weights...but I am sure you could learn how to isolate with a kettlebell as well.

    I'm all for whatever gets the job done for your own goals.

    From my limited exposure, I think kettlebell training may keep your cardiovascular system in balance better than doing weight training and cardio separately. And it would take less time.

    But I also think that you do not get the "size" that some desire from kettlebells. And if you do, it may take longer doing it this way vs. free weights. And I say this because there is more info available to help you master free weight training.

    Then you run across sites like this that do not do any kettlebells justice.
    http://
    skinnybulkup.com/kettlebells-are-inferior-to-dumbbells

    (copy and paste if you wish)
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    There are certainly a lot of haters out there. I will admit that kettlebells do have a bit of a learning curve, but doesn't everything else?

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    Watchin what yer doin! tadolfi's Avatar
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    Yes sir - totally agree. My thinking is that folks sometimes just don't have the patience today as they did years ago.
    Long term goals escape them and whatever might not be the "norm" right now gets discarded.

    Unfortunately it seems that kettlebells may fall in to that area at this point. But I do see it changing.

    Our gym just bought some for a group trainer to use with her senior class.
    "Fit as a Kettle" I think it's called.
    Kinda catchy...
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    I hope it isn't kettlebell aerobics or some **** like that. Is she an RKC?

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    Watchin what yer doin! tadolfi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmetalguy View Post
    I hope it isn't kettlebell aerobics or some **** like that. Is she an RKC?
    If that's Russian Kettlebell...nope.
    She is a local trainer that started doing crossfit and now is "expanding".

    I have no idea what her credentials are as far as all of this.
    I know she is ACE certified with some continuing credits along the lines of group strength training and exercises for older adults.

    Kettlebell aerobics sounds familiar for some reason....

    Not a good way to go in your opinion?
    Sorry, I'll admit I'm ignorant when it comes to this type of training.
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    well, its just not a proper application if you ask me. The way I train kettlebells is all about ballistic movements and tension with relaxation. I see some of the stuff like Jillian Michaels did on the biggest loser as hokey and showing that bell training will ultimately hurt people.

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    Watchin what yer doin! tadolfi's Avatar
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    I can understand that.
    Like I stated earlier about playing, I could tell how fast things could get out of hand if you just start "flinging" around with out any rhyme or reason.
    Hopefully she'll just use them as some sort of stretching tool and introduce some concepts...

    On the Jillian Michaels name...when you bring that name up it can spark a lot of conversation in some circles. I'm not a fan or a hater, but I will say, that gal definitely got the right advice on marketing herself and what she had to sell. From her own image to the workouts, writings, nutrition...she has done well.
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    That show is screwed up beyond belief my man, but no arguing that she did have to pave her own path and has made quite the name for herself. Crash diets and multiple hour long workouts are just not the way to get success over the long term.

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    Watchin what yer doin! tadolfi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmetalguy View Post
    Crash diets and multiple hour long workouts are just not the way to get success over the long term.
    Amen!
    But the sad news is, that's what sells.

    I've told people if they watch what they eat the right way and just stay active, they would really never have to do cardio and they would look firm and in shape...they look at me like I just grew a third eye. Ha,Ha,Ha

    Just to back up what you said a little further...

    A co-worker (younger gal) is always looking for the next best thing.
    Guess there is a book out called the 17 day diet and she bought it and was telling me about it. (Basically an Adkins approach with a flush added each week)
    I mentioned to be careful when she introduced carbs again cause she may put on three to fve pounds immediately. She didn't talk to me the rest of the day!

    Today (day four of her plan from this book) she was basically dragging herself around work. I aske dif she was getting sick and she said no, just didn't have any energy.
    We discussed what she had been eating and came up with an average of 800-1,000 calories a day!
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    Seasoned M&S Veteran 0606196t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmetalguy View Post
    I'm not attacking other systems here though, just stating that I feel that kettlebells offer a bigger "bang for the buck" than some barbell training does. Personally, I feel a kettlebell front squat is far more functional than a barbell front squat. However, I also feel that a barbell bench is far more functional than a kettlebell floor press. Each has its place...BUT

    Kettlebells are by far the best complex machine ever invented, if you are into that kind of thing. Kettlebells allow you to flow from one exercise to the next seamlessly, getting the most taxing metabolic conditioning workout.

    Joseph: I agree RKC is building ground (what I am going to certify in), but crossfit does have much more of a following. the Hardstyle of kettlebells is still obsolete compared to what is considered "mainstream."
    I HATE doing chest exercises with kbs. And I used to question why kettlebells weren't the bee's knees.

    I have a few issues with the hard style/RKC, I don't think paradox breathing is that needed for kettlelbells. Yes, it can increase power, but its something I'd only use if the kettlebell is much heavier than I'm used to.

    I feel its quite dogmatic, just the advertising/portrayal. I think its one reason it hasn't dominated the scene in Europe etc. And perhaps not "mainstream" is, unless you are a kettlebell user, all the famous trainers etc would be greeted with "WHO ARE YOU?"

    When I first started seriously working with kettlebells, a lot of the achievements for me were like, TGU with 32kg, pressing 20kg for reps etc. But for the wider strength community it isn't that big a deal.

    For Olympic lifters, snatching 64kg isn't a biggie. Its a unique challenge for kettlebell users in general, but the loads used aren't going to be of note to the wider strength community.

    Its the similar reasons that kettlebells has been pushed into mainly a conditioning aspect of my training. I can progress more easily with conventional tools, but I can also work on more specific stuff with kbs on the side.

    Like tadofi said, if a lot of guys' goals are to be big and ripped, kettlebells aren't the answer, it can be a part of it, but never the sum.

    I agree with the flowing aspect, I used to use kettlebell for complexes, rather than dumbbells/barbells, as I was more proficient with them. I also squatted my deepest with kettlebells, and I had great stability in my core + shoulder. I think kettlebells are a great tool for developing a lot of functional movements in people, as dumbbells/barbells can be awkward for beginners e.g. squat with.

    But what I found personally, is that if personal goals are not aligned with what kettlebell type training offers, then its importance is diminished for a trainer.
    Joseph - falling into the dark side of youtube occasionally

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    Kettlebells the total package - No.

    Of course it can be challenging do it sometime, always people try to simplify things, ''kb all you need'', I think that if you want to be best athlete you need to train with many different things: especific trainning for your sport, related training for your sport, strength trainning (big 4, oly lift, etc), condition, etc etc...
    And for a random guy who just wanna to build a lot of muscle I think that there a lot of better ways that just with kb's. I saw the guy of the vid with the 90 kg kb, is he just trainning with kb's?thats the physique that you build with just kb's trainning? well he looks overall small, and if that is the physique you get with just kb's trainning deff is not a good one to build muscle.
    I do not count reps, I make every rep count !!

    175cm/75kg

 

 

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