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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureIntensity View Post
    This is completely normal. You will weigh a lot different depending on what time of day it is. This is why it is important to weigh yourself at the same time every day. I usually do it first thing in the morning, after I pee, but before I eat. This will give you the most accurate weight.

    Just FYI, I usually weigh about a full 7-8 lbs. heavier right before bed than when I wake up in the morning.




    I promise this is okay. I know it feels like cheating but it's not. I still recommend a a lot of healthy foods but this is for health reasons. But there is no reason why you can't put these more tasty options in your diet every once in a while. I bet I eat ice cream at least 3 -4 times a week in my diet. I just work i into my numbers.

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    Wow really? How come you weigh so much more at night? I've never weighed myself at night I don't think. So you think I should weigh myself when I wake up not at 3?
    So the jellybean thing is a once in a while thing? What else do you recommend to have as like post workout carbs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by brian62275 View Post
    LMAO...you JUST called me a fat ass!!!! lol


    Its ok, I can dig it, and if I werent open to honest feedback I wouldnt have bothered asking.

    So, if I am indeed chubbier than I realize, and gauging what that guy in the pic looks like for his height/weight, if I am striving for just some definition, but not to be "cut", like 10%, or less, can you give me a rough estimate, either with a pic or a guesstimation of height weight as to where I ought to be at around 15%?

    Last time I was under 200 was 5 yrs ago, and I'm pretty sure I have gained significantly more muscle than what I had then. As I have said before, my arms & shoulders , along with my legs, are relatively trim, its just my hips/belly area thats always been the alamo for fat!
    Haha, I can say that I have been the victim of this in my life as well. I was 222 lbs. when I decided to diet down for my first contest. I wasn't lean but most people wouldn't consider me chubby. I thought I was going to weigh about 180. When show day came I was only 159 lbs. lol. I was way smaller than I thought. Most people are.

    I just think that you will be much happier with the way you look at about 185-190 lbs. You will look smaller in baggy clothes but way better with your shirt off or in a tight shirt.

    Quote Originally Posted by brian62275 View Post
    Does Schwans serve your area by chance?? Ever had them?
    I have no idea what Schwans is.

  3. #203
    Frequent Poster PureIntensity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx26 View Post
    Wow really? How come you weigh so much more at night? I've never weighed myself at night I don't think. So you think I should weigh myself when I wake up not at 3?
    So the jellybean thing is a once in a while thing? What else do you recommend to have as like post workout carbs?
    You weigh less in the morning because when your body
    converts food materials to energy, CO2 and water vapour are released as waste products - and are expelled from the body (that's why when you breath on glass condensation appears). If you think about it - this is happening all night - so a fair amount of water leaves your body. A third of the body's water loss occurs at night - and can amount to about 2 or 3lbs.
    Also, you will clearly weigh more when you eat/drink something - you will be adding the weight of that food to your body. However, this won't necessarily make you 'put on' weight because the food is essentially burned off/ waste products leave the body (unless excessive calories are consumed which are more than the number you use in a day) - so basically, you will essentially stay the same weight if you eat a normal amount of food. But I eat a ton of food every day. Plus I eat one of my biggest meals before bed too.

    Weighing yourself in the morning is better because external factors such as how much you have eaten/drank/sweat become less of a factor.

    Personally I usually use Gatorade Powder for my post workout carbs but basically any carbs that are sugary and have no fat will do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureIntensity View Post
    You weigh less in the morning because when your body
    converts food materials to energy, CO2 and water vapour are released as waste products - and are expelled from the body (that's why when you breath on glass condensation appears). If you think about it - this is happening all night - so a fair amount of water leaves your body. A third of the body's water loss occurs at night - and can amount to about 2 or 3lbs.
    Also, you will clearly weigh more when you eat/drink something - you will be adding the weight of that food to your body. However, this won't necessarily make you 'put on' weight because the food is essentially burned off/ waste products leave the body (unless excessive calories are consumed which are more than the number you use in a day) - so basically, you will essentially stay the same weight if you eat a normal amount of food. But I eat a ton of food every day. Plus I eat one of my biggest meals before bed too.

    Weighing yourself in the morning is better because external factors such as how much you have eaten/drank/sweat become less of a factor.

    Personally I usually use Gatorade Powder for my post workout carbs but basically any carbs that are sugary and have no fat will do.

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    But I thought sugar was bad for muscle building. So gatorade would be good during lifting as well ?
    Last edited by maxx26; 10-19-2011 at 02:45 PM.

  5. #205
    Regular Poster MeanTime's Avatar
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    Hey Cliff, what are your thoughts on a high-fat (the good ones) approach to bulking? I feel far less sluggish than on a high carb diet.
    I was considering trying this approach next year (I saw Marc Lobliner doing something similar) but my concern was that I need 4000-4500 cals to bulk which would be a lot of peanut butter!!
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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx26 View Post
    But I thought sugar was bad for muscle building. So gatorade would be good during lifting as well ?
    Gatorade would be perfect for during as well. I know that most people will tell you that sugar is bad for muscle growth but that is just a myth. Your muscles are fueled by sugar and can actually be a potent muscle builder when ingested around workout time.

    Sugar won't even really hinder fat loss either. I just recommend not getting to much sugar because it is much healthier to get whole grains, fruits, and veggies throughout the rest of the day. But during workout time, sugar is your best bet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanTime View Post
    Hey Cliff, what are your thoughts on a high-fat (the good ones) approach to bulking? I feel far less sluggish than on a high carb diet.
    I was considering trying this approach next year (I saw Marc Lobliner doing something similar) but my concern was that I need 4000-4500 cals to bulk which would be a lot of peanut butter!!
    It really depends on what your definition of high fat is. I fully agree that some people just make better gains with higher amounts of fat in their diet. So when trying to gain I will take people as high as 100 grams or a little more per day. To me that is pretty high fat. I am not quite sure if this is what Marc is doing.

    I know that some people will bulk with a pretty low carbs approach though, keeping carb around 100 or so and eating a ton of fat and protein everyday. I don't think that this approach is the best option for a natural athlete though. Don't get me wrong, you will still make gains with this approach but I think that the gains will not be quite as good as if carbs were taken higher. The reason for this is the hormone insulin. Insulin is perhaps just as anabolic as test. If you deny yourself of carbs while trying to gain then you will be denying yourself of a lot of anabolic hormones. Steroid users actually do very well with carb restriction because they are already injecting extremely high levels of anabolics into their systems and will have no problem utilizing the excess protein and fat. So for this reason I recommend natural lifters utilize those carbs.

    Just out of curiosity, how many carbs are you taking in when you start to feel sluggish?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureIntensity View Post
    Gatorade would be perfect for during as well. I know that most people will tell you that sugar is bad for muscle growth but that is just a myth. Your muscles are fueled by sugar and can actually be a potent muscle builder when ingested around workout time.

    Sugar won't even really hinder fat loss either. I just recommend not getting to much sugar because it is much healthier to get whole grains, fruits, and veggies throughout the rest of the day. But during workout time, sugar is your best bet.

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    Alright so you still think I should have 80 grams of carbs post workout and like 50 during?
    Should I even worry about sodium at this point?
    On my off days from lifting I should eat just as much ad the other days right?
    Last edited by maxx26; 10-20-2011 at 12:23 PM.

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    Frequent Poster PureIntensity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx26 View Post
    Alright so you still think I should have 80 grams of carbs post workout and like 50 during?
    Should I even worry about sodium at this point?
    On my off days from lifting I should eat just as much ad the other days right?
    Sticking with the formula of the 3 shakes I would actually have you take in 50 grams pre, 50 grams during, and 50 grams post.

    I wouldn't worry too much about sodium.

    You got it, just eat the same macros on your off days

  10. #210
    Regular Poster MeanTime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureIntensity View Post
    It really depends on what your definition of high fat is. I fully agree that some people just make better gains with higher amounts of fat in their diet. So when trying to gain I will take people as high as 100 grams or a little more per day. To me that is pretty high fat. I am not quite sure if this is what Marc is doing.

    I know that some people will bulk with a pretty low carbs approach though, keeping carb around 100 or so and eating a ton of fat and protein everyday. I don't think that this approach is the best option for a natural athlete though. Don't get me wrong, you will still make gains with this approach but I think that the gains will not be quite as good as if carbs were taken higher. The reason for this is the hormone insulin. Insulin is perhaps just as anabolic as test. If you deny yourself of carbs while trying to gain then you will be denying yourself of a lot of anabolic hormones. Steroid users actually do very well with carb restriction because they are already injecting extremely high levels of anabolics into their systems and will have no problem utilizing the excess protein and fat. So for this reason I recommend natural lifters utilize those carbs.

    Just out of curiosity, how many carbs are you taking in when you start to feel sluggish?
    Thanks Cliff. I don't count calories but I do have a fair idea of macros and would guess that when bulking I was probably at around 300g P, 500-550 C, 100g F for 4-4.5k a day and felt sluggish after nearly every meal.
    I actually feel much better when cutting on anywhere from 200-300g carbs. More energy etc.
    I guess my definition of high (For fat) was upwards of 150g daily (for a 200lber)
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureIntensity View Post
    Sticking with the formula of the 3 shakes I would actually have you take in 50 grams pre, 50 grams during, and 50 grams post.

    I wouldn't worry too much about sodium.

    You got it, just eat the same macros on your off days
    Now how long before my workout is considered pre? 30 mins? And could those carbs not come from a shake and jus from Gatorade or some other liquid with no fat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx26 View Post
    Now how long before my workout is considered pre? 30 mins? And could those carbs not come from a shake and jus from Gatorade or some other liquid with no fat?
    I would just use the same ingredients in all 3 shakes. This way you don't have to think about it much. But if you want to use something different that meets the same requirements you can use that too.
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    Hey cliff, I'm considering getting some whey protein isolate powder to mix in with my oatmeal and with my post workout snack. I know you try to stick to the middle of the road when it comes to supplements (not too cheap or expensive), but I was wondering if you had any recommendations as to what type or feature (isolate, blend.....bcaa's, glutamine) I should look for? I'm thinking I just want basic protein, nothing fancy, as a means to get my needed total protein intake, as well as to protect my muscles as I continue to cut.
    I don't lift to compete or to get huge; I lift to be strong, fit and look effin' sexy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanTime View Post
    Thanks Cliff. I don't count calories but I do have a fair idea of macros and would guess that when bulking I was probably at around 300g P, 500-550 C, 100g F for 4-4.5k a day and felt sluggish after nearly every meal.
    I actually feel much better when cutting on anywhere from 200-300g carbs. More energy etc.
    I guess my definition of high (For fat) was upwards of 150g daily (for a 200lber)
    I guess that is a little high. I am curious about 2 things.

    1) what type of carbs were you eating when you were eating high carbs?

    2) did you lower your protein levels when you were dieting?

    Once again I am just curious.

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    Regular Poster MeanTime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureIntensity View Post
    I guess that is a little high. I am curious about 2 things.

    1) what type of carbs were you eating when you were eating high carbs?

    2) did you lower your protein levels when you were dieting?

    Once again I am just curious.
    1. A ton of oats, brown rice - the only time I really had simple carbs was postworkout shake. Or maybe a pizza once a week

    2. I'd guess they were around 1.5g lb bulking and back down closer to 1g lb on cut.

    Again I'm just a recreational lifter (started nearly a year ago) and certainly not big by any bodybuilding means. But I do try and put in the hard yards in the kitchen to get the best results I can without being so restrictive on my diet that I count calories, limit myself to brown rice chicken and broccoli etc.
    The reason I was asking, I'm hoping to add another 10lb muscle to my frame next year and was wondering if it was possible to do it without feeling like taking a carb-overload nap each day lol.
    Thanks Cliff!
    New log - muscleandstrength.com/forum/member-training-journals/60044-new-log-new-goals-end-2011-bang.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureIntensity View Post
    I would just use the same ingredients in all 3 shakes. This way you don't have to think about it much. But if you want to use something different that meets the same requirements you can use that too.
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    Okay nice. Just one last thing how long before my workout do I take my pre shake? Lol
    Oh and how many pounds do you think i should gain before I do a cutting cycle?
    Last edited by maxx26; 10-21-2011 at 10:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx26 View Post


    Okay nice. Just one last thing how long before my workout do I take my pre shake? Lol
    Oh and how many pounds do you think i should gain before I do a cutting cycle?
    Sorry Man, I forgot to answer that question. I start drinking my pre shake 10 minutes before my workout and try to finish it by the start of my workout.

    As for when to start your cutting cycle, that would depend on how lean you want to stay and what your goal are. As a good start I would cut after you gain 5 lbs. Then try to lose 2-3 lbs. during your cut. Then go back to a bulk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brian62275 View Post
    Hey cliff, I'm considering getting some whey protein isolate powder to mix in with my oatmeal and with my post workout snack. I know you try to stick to the middle of the road when it comes to supplements (not too cheap or expensive), but I was wondering if you had any recommendations as to what type or feature (isolate, blend.....bcaa's, glutamine) I should look for? I'm thinking I just want basic protein, nothing fancy, as a means to get my needed total protein intake, as well as to protect my muscles as I continue to cut.
    This would depend a little on your budget. A pure whey isolate is your best choice but it is rather pricey. If you can afford it then I would go for it. I really think that you will get a good bang for you buck though, if you go with a blend where the first ingredient is whey isolate and the second ingredient is whey concentrate.

    Although a whey concentrate is considered less quality I think that it is given a worse reputation than it deserves sometimes. You can usually get a good amount of natural growth factors that can sometimes be absent in a pure isolate.

    To sum it up I think a blend with isolate as the first ingredient is the best bet but you can't really go wrong as long as you go with a reputable brand. I am not a big fan when people buy Costco or Walmart brand or something like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MeanTime View Post
    1. A ton of oats, brown rice - the only time I really had simple carbs was postworkout shake. Or maybe a pizza once a week

    2. I'd guess they were around 1.5g lb bulking and back down closer to 1g lb on cut.

    Again I'm just a recreational lifter (started nearly a year ago) and certainly not big by any bodybuilding means. But I do try and put in the hard yards in the kitchen to get the best results I can without being so restrictive on my diet that I count calories, limit myself to brown rice chicken and broccoli etc.
    The reason I was asking, I'm hoping to add another 10lb muscle to my frame next year and was wondering if it was possible to do it without feeling like taking a carb-overload nap each day lol.
    Thanks Cliff!
    Good to know. This is obviously blood sugar issue. You may want to try something like alpha lipoic acid or chromium picolinate. These can both help regulate blood sugar levels and help you stabilize. You could also try putting more of your carbs at night, before bed. This way it won't really matter if you get sleepy afterward. You won't get fat from that I promise. Also, carbs help raise serotonin levels which should help you sleep better as well.


    One last thing, you may want to also try lowering your protein levels on you bulk a bit. This can also make people sluggish sometimes. This is a lot for your kidneys to process. It doesn't effect everyone but it can effect some this way. I also have a fast metabolism but once I stopped eating so much protein during my bulks I was able to gain muscle just as fast but I was also able to stay leaner.

    Hope these help a bit. Keep eating and training hard and you'll get where you want to be. Just be patient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureIntensity View Post
    Sorry Man, I forgot to answer that question. I start drinking my pre shake 10 minutes before my workout and try to finish it by the start of my workout.

    As for when to start your cutting cycle, that would depend on how lean you want to stay and what your goal are. As a good start I would cut after you gain 5 lbs. Then try to lose 2-3 lbs. during your cut. Then go back to a bulk.

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    When you say protein for pre and during shakes you mean like a scoop of whey correct?
    And would this be a good dextrose supplement?
    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/sto...-dextrose.html
    Last edited by maxx26; 10-22-2011 at 10:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureIntensity View Post
    This would depend a little on your budget. A pure whey isolate is your best choice but it is rather pricey. If you can afford it then I would go for it. I really think that you will get a good bang for you buck though, if you go with a blend where the first ingredient is whey isolate and the second ingredient is whey concentrate.

    Although a whey concentrate is considered less quality I think that it is given a worse reputation than it deserves sometimes. You can usually get a good amount of natural growth factors that can sometimes be absent in a pure isolate.

    To sum it up I think a blend with isolate as the first ingredient is the best bet but you can't really go wrong as long as you go with a reputable brand. I am not a big fan when people buy Costco or Walmart brand or something like that.

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    (facepalm)

    I already went out and bought some protein from walmart, this stuff....

    http://www.bodyfortress.com/SUPER-AD...TEIN-CHOCOLATE

    Like I said, as of right now, I'm just gonna use it to add to my oatmeal & recovery drink, and I'm only using a scoop at a time (approx 26g protein). So since I'm not trying to bulk with this stuff, hopefully that will mitigate any negative aspects of it being a "cheap product".
    I don't lift to compete or to get huge; I lift to be strong, fit and look effin' sexy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx26 View Post
    When you say protein for pre and during shakes you mean like a scoop of whey correct?
    And would this be a good dextrose supplement?
    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/sto...-dextrose.html
    Yeah, a scoop of whey works best. Minimal digestion time, plus it is naturally loaded with leucine. Also, that is a perfect dextrose supplement. That is another nice thing about dextrose, it is very cheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brian62275 View Post
    (facepalm)

    I already went out and bought some protein from walmart, this stuff....

    http://www.bodyfortress.com/SUPER-AD...TEIN-CHOCOLATE

    Like I said, as of right now, I'm just gonna use it to add to my oatmeal & recovery drink, and I'm only using a scoop at a time (approx 26g protein). So since I'm not trying to bulk with this stuff, hopefully that will mitigate any negative aspects of it being a "cheap product".
    Actually, this one looks pretty good. I don't know if they do it anymore but I know that they used to actually have a Wal-Mart Brand protein. This was the stuff I didn't really trust. But this look pretty good. The amino acid profile is solid so you could just keep using this. I will say one thing though, if you do a flat scoop I would count that as 20 grams, because even though they don't list it I am sure they mean 26 grams per heaped scoop. You can usually get 25 grams into a scoop of pure whey isolate but it is really hard for a blend to get that much into one scoop. Just FYI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureIntensity View Post
    Actually, this one looks pretty good. I don't know if they do it anymore but I know that they used to actually have a Wal-Mart Brand protein. This was the stuff I didn't really trust. But this look pretty good. The amino acid profile is solid so you could just keep using this. I will say one thing though, if you do a flat scoop I would count that as 20 grams, because even though they don't list it I am sure they mean 26 grams per heaped scoop. You can usually get 25 grams into a scoop of pure whey isolate but it is really hard for a blend to get that much into one scoop. Just FYI.

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    yeah, I already factored as much, but since I mix it with greek yogurt (14g P), I figure I am easily getting at least 30+ total..which is sufficient for a post workout snack while cutting, right?

    Just curious, are you a runner or do you know any guys who are body builders who weigh more than 200+? I was just wondering if most heavier guys (even those of us who workout and do regular HIT), still have slower times while running simply due to sheer overall size, or if maybe I'm just slacking? I used to be able to run a 10min mile for up to 6 miles easy, but lately I'm at about 12 minute miles. Anything faster and I start getting lower back pain and a little pooped prematurely.

    Hows your new program coming along? close to a final product yet? Are you open to offering "pre-designed" routines, where you take the persons goals, personal info, and then match it up with an established routine & some form of a diet summary or guideline?
    I don't lift to compete or to get huge; I lift to be strong, fit and look effin' sexy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureIntensity View Post
    Yeah, a scoop of whey works best. Minimal digestion time, plus it is naturally loaded with leucine. Also, that is a perfect dextrose supplement. That is another nice thing about dextrose, it is very cheap.

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    I know I thought it was like a misprint or something, 10 lbs for 18 bucks that should last a while lol.
    Also how long after my workout is it safe to have like a meal with fat?
    this is good for creatine right? http://www.muscleandstrength.com/sto...nohydrate.html
    Can I mix the dextrose with the whey protein for my pre, during, and post shakes?
    Last edited by maxx26; 10-23-2011 at 10:55 AM.

 

 

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