MEMBER LOGIN

Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Just joined M&S
    • Join Date
      Apr 2011
    • Posts
      1
    • Years Exp
      2-3 Years
    • Goal
      More Strength
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      New york
    • Photos
    • Reputation
      10
    • Rep Power
      0

    Default What is the difference between muscle insertion and muscle origin?

    Is muscle insertion where the ends of the muscle meet the bone (or other muscle) and the origin where the muscle in general is, like the arm?
    Lifecell Wrinkle Cream
    Last edited by Diklahsmith; 04-08-2011 at 07:18 AM.

  2. #2
    Moderator Scrutiny's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Oct 2008
    • Posts
      14,404
    • Years Exp
      3-4 Years
    • Goal
      Build Muscle
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Australia
    • Photos
    • Reputation
      125,718,446
    • Rep Power
      1,257,262

    Default

    The origin of a muscle is the point at which it attaches to a bone (usually) or another muscle.

    The insertion of the muscle is the end of the muscle attaching to the freely moving bone of its joint.
    Consistency is the key

  3. #3
    The Athlete CityMiller's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Jan 2010
    • Posts
      4,206
    • Years Exp
      5-10 Years
    • Goal
      Performance
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      AU NY
    • Photos
    • Reputation
      226,284
    • Rep Power
      2,288

    Default

    Muscle origin and insertion are terms that describe where the muscle attaches to the bones / connective tissues. They are relative. Generally, the origin is where the muscles "originates" on the body (usually a bone, but not always) of the stationary part. The insertion is where the muscle attaches on the bone of the moving lever across a single, or multiple, joint lines. When the muscle contracts, it pulls the insertion to the origin.


    ***The above should answer your question simply - however there is more in-depth information below***

    When I say that these terms are relative, it means that theoretically they can be 'switched'. The origin can become the insertion and vice versa depending on the relative function of the body at the time.

    To explain this here are two examples using the biceps:



    Standard Origin and Insertion
    The biceps brachii (biceps, the muscle in the front of your upper arm) flexes the forearm at the elbow, like your standard DB curl (see image below). Notice how the upper arm is stationary (it doesn't move from the side of the torso) and how the forearm is moving up and down, flexing and extending - the moving 'lever'. In this example the origin of the biceps is in the shoulder and the insertion is on the radius and connective tissue covering the ulna. The bicep pulls the insertions in the forearm closer to the origin in the shoulder.





    Switched Origin and Insertion:

    The way that the origin and insertion of the biceps brachii can be 'switched' is based on which part of the body is moving - such as instead of DB Curls, we use the chin-up for example. During the chin-up, the forearm is the stationary body part as it does not move (generally) from its vertical position whereas the upper arm and torso are moving up and down as the 'lever' (see image below). In this case, the "origin" in the forearm is pulling the "insertion" in the shoulder closer.



    This isn't a very complex concept, but sometimes can be hard to understand because muscles are normally thought to be able to 'switch' their functions. This switching of origin and insertion happens all over the body in basically every muscle group (from quads and hamstring, triceps, etc.).


    ~CM

  4. #4
    M&S Injury Advisor yitmy's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Nov 2006
    • Posts
      3,499
    • Years Exp
      20+ Years
    • Goal
      Get Fit
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Ohio
    • Photos
    • Reputation
      14,243,914
    • Rep Power
      142,464

    Default

    Origin(O) is the most cranial(towards head) attachment of the muscle
    Insertion(I) is the most distal/caudal(toward feet) where the muscle attaches.

    Note the muscle when it moves does not change the O or I. The relationship on how close to the head is what determines which part of the muscle is the origin.

    Biceps
    O: Coracoid process and supraglenoid cavity of the scapula
    I: tuberosity of the radius
    A home gym consisting of Bowflex Power-Pro XTL and power blocks(5-90)

  5. #5
    The Athlete CityMiller's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Jan 2010
    • Posts
      4,206
    • Years Exp
      5-10 Years
    • Goal
      Performance
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      AU NY
    • Photos
    • Reputation
      226,284
    • Rep Power
      2,288

    Default

    It is called reverse mover action. Through a strict anatomical perspective where the definition of origin is the proximal attachment site and the insertion in the distal attachment site, then yes - they cannot and do not change. But from a kinesiological or biomechanical perspective where they are defined by which attachment site is on the immobile or mobile body part, or which site is pulled toward the other - they can 'change'.





    Muscolino, Joesph. The Muscular System Manual: The Skeletal Muscles of the Human Body. Third Edition. Maryland Height, Missouri: Mosby Elsevier, 2010. 89-90. Print.

  6. #6
    M&S Injury Advisor yitmy's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Nov 2006
    • Posts
      3,499
    • Years Exp
      20+ Years
    • Goal
      Get Fit
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Ohio
    • Photos
    • Reputation
      14,243,914
    • Rep Power
      142,464

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CityMiller View Post
    It is called reverse mover action. Through a strict anatomical perspective where the definition of origin is the proximal attachment site and the insertion in the distal attachment site, then yes - they cannot and do not change. But from a kinesiological or biomechanical perspective where they are defined by which attachment site is on the immobile or mobile body part, or which site is pulled toward the other - they can 'change'.



    If that is so then why when you look up the origin of a particular muscle the answer is the same irrelevant to the position of the tissue.

    I am not familiar with the changeable part being origin and insertion. A better term may be the axis of movement. Which should describe the movement occurring in a particular plane based on which component is stable. Leading to open vs closed chain mvmt.
    A home gym consisting of Bowflex Power-Pro XTL and power blocks(5-90)

  7. #7
    M&S Injury Advisor yitmy's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Nov 2006
    • Posts
      3,499
    • Years Exp
      20+ Years
    • Goal
      Get Fit
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Ohio
    • Photos
    • Reputation
      14,243,914
    • Rep Power
      142,464

    Default

    Tried to google search "reverse mover action" and came back with nothing regarding origin and insertion changing.

    http://sports.jrank.org/pages/11435/...on-muscle.html
    A home gym consisting of Bowflex Power-Pro XTL and power blocks(5-90)

  8. #8
    The Athlete CityMiller's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Jan 2010
    • Posts
      4,206
    • Years Exp
      5-10 Years
    • Goal
      Performance
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      AU NY
    • Photos
    • Reputation
      226,284
    • Rep Power
      2,288

    Default

    ***Just a disclaimer here, yitmy - I am not trying to be a snot or anything here. Trying to show how big my e-balls are with information and theories and everything to try and disprove you. Rather, I am hopeful that this can be an intellectual discussion of sorts, out of which I can learn something new. I know that you know a hell of a lot more than I do as of right now (as I am still a student of the subject matter and you are a certified practicing PT, if I'm not mistaken?) and I respect that. I have nothing against you or your opinions/philosophies on the subject***

    Quote Originally Posted by yitmy View Post
    If that is so then why when you look up the origin of a particular muscle the answer is the same irrelevant to the position of the tissue.

    Because that definition is based off of the anatomical perspective?

    I am not familiar with the changeable part being origin and insertion. A better term may be the axis of movement. Which should describe the movement occurring in a particular plane based on which component is stable. Leading to open vs closed chain mvmt.

    Not necessarily. Again looking at the DB Curl vs. the Pull-up:

    The motion of the DB Curls is within the sagittal plane, around the merdiolaterl axis. The Pull-up also is within the sagittal plane and the mediolateral axis. However, in the DB Curl the forearm is the mobile lever and in the Pull-up the humerous is the mobile lever.
    Quote Originally Posted by yitmy View Post
    Tried to google search "reverse mover action" and came back with nothing regarding origin and insertion changing.

    http://sports.jrank.org/pages/11435/...on-muscle.html
    I also tried a google search and had similar results, that is why I referenced my kinesiology textbook. In the next section of that chapter, you can see in the second picture, entitled "Naming Muscle Attachments: Origin and Insertion vs. Attachment" it goes on to describe the author's theory behind how deeming one attachment site over another as the origin and insertion due to reverse actions, but also due to student learning curves (not sure why that is relevant but it was noted so I figured I would be complete).

    When looking at muscular origin and insertion from strictly anatomical definitions, they would be defined based on proximal (origin) and distal (insertion). Through kinesiological definition the insertion is pulled toward the origin - therefore they can be considered interchangeable because of muscular function dependent on immobile vs. mobile levers.

  9. #9
    M&S Injury Advisor yitmy's Avatar
    • Join Date
      Nov 2006
    • Posts
      3,499
    • Years Exp
      20+ Years
    • Goal
      Get Fit
    • Gender
      Male
    • Location
      Ohio
    • Photos
    • Reputation
      14,243,914
    • Rep Power
      142,464

    Default

    Sorry do not have the book, so I cannot actually see what you are talking about. But the difference as you say between a bicep curl and a chin up is that one is an open chain(curl) whereby the other is a closed chain exercise where the distal segment is fixed and the core is moving in relation to that. Have not really heard the kinesiology terminology, but this is how we describe force couples by open vs closed chain movements.
    A home gym consisting of Bowflex Power-Pro XTL and power blocks(5-90)

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. difference in muscle size
    By simon2010 in forum General Chat
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-19-2011, 09:05 PM
  2. What is the difference between Tone and Muscle
    By Gatorade57 in forum Workouts & Training
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-20-2010, 08:53 AM
  3. Muscle Difference
    By CTRushe in forum Beginners Questions & Advice
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-14-2010, 05:55 AM
  4. Strength Training vs. Muscle Building what's the difference?
    By gill0321 in forum Beginners Questions & Advice
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-13-2009, 12:47 PM
  5. What's the difference between muscle, strength and cutting routines?
    By zeroblank57 in forum Beginners Questions & Advice
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-08-2009, 05:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Follow M&S
Contact Us

Muscle & Strength, LLC
1118 First Street South
Columbia, SC 29209
PH: 1-800-537-9910
Email: click here

McAfee SECURE sites help keep you safe from identity theft, credit card fraud, spyware, spam, viruses and online scams
© Copyright 2013, Muscle & Strength LLC. Images copyright of their respective owners. Contact Us | Affiliate Program | Terms of Use