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  1. #1
    Crocked :-( Gaz6682's Avatar
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    Default Insulin Spike Bad?

    I read an article today that stated that an insulin spike caused by high GI carbs can be detremental to fat loss as it promotes fat storage. I am cutting at the moment but still adding dextrose to my post-workout shake.

    Is this a mistake on my part?
    Gaz

    "Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever." Lance Armstrong

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    Good question! Insulin is spiked nearly every meal, it just depends on how long. Even with the keto diet (zero carbs) you are REQUIRED to have a quick carb post workout. Dextrose is completely fine as long as it is directly post workout.

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    Stick to the basics; calories in vs calories out. And FYI, protein causes a bigger insulin spike than carbs.

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    Ambassador of pain Possum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz6682 View Post
    I read an article today that stated that an insulin spike caused by high GI carbs can be detremental to fat loss as it promotes fat storage. I am cutting at the moment but still adding dextrose to my post-workout shake.

    Is this a mistake on my part?
    Insulin is the hormone the body uses to put on fat, and yes of course frequent insulin spikes are bad.

    This is the reason you avoid sugary and high GI food. This being said however, after a workout the body needs to restore glycogen and replenish damaged muscles. The body will use the calories for these before putting on fat, and and insulin spike may aid in increasing the speed of this.

    So to sum it up, yes insulin spikes are bad but not after a workout. Although tbh im not a huge fan of the whole Dextrous and whey. Research shows you can get improved results from a standard carb source and a blend of proteins.
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    Crocked :-( Gaz6682's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum View Post
    Insulin is the hormone the body uses to put on fat, and yes of course frequent insulin spikes are bad.

    This is the reason you avoid sugary and high GI food. This being said however, after a workout the body needs to restore glycogen and replenish damaged muscles. The body will use the calories for these before putting on fat, and and insulin spike may aid in increasing the speed of this.

    So to sum it up, yes insulin spikes are bad but not after a workout. Although tbh im not a huge fan of the whole Dextrous and whey. Research shows you can get improved results from a standard carb source and a blend of proteins.
    Standard carb source? As in rice, pasta, potatoes etc?
    Gaz

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    Ambassador of pain Possum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz6682 View Post
    Standard carb source? As in rice, pasta, potatoes etc?
    Well I mean you dont HAVE to have the fastest digesting sugar or even sugar at all. Oats, Maltodextrin even the lactose in milk will serve you well.
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    M&S Senior Member andykg's Avatar
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    I just have a banana with my post workout whey shake, my glycogen stores are not that depleted to warrant the simple carbs and insulin spikes to drive glycogen back into the muscles, the way i look at it the protein shake will do its job and the carbs I eat at lunch and dinner will replace my stores throughout the day.

    I dont think i will ever be at a stage to have to worry about it while losing weight, maybe its totally different bulking and squeezing every little bit of muscle growth you can get but for now i'll stick with my nana
    Current supps: Xtend and Dymatize Whey

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    Crocked :-( Gaz6682's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum View Post
    Well I mean you dont HAVE to have the fastest digesting sugar or even sugar at all. Oats, Maltodextrin even the lactose in milk will serve you well.
    I'm swimming in oats, 5Kg of them. Done
    Gaz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shadow View Post
    Stick to the basics; calories in vs calories out. And FYI, protein causes a bigger insulin spike than carbs.

    got any good studies? i have refuted about 20 of them on another website. that statement doesnt make any sense if you actually think about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shadow View Post
    k, how bout a study? people will write online articles on whatever gets peoples attention. you know how many articles there are about the benefits of Glutamine on body building? anyways.... i hate comments like this

    For example, there is an enzyme in your fat cells called hormone-sensitive lipase (HSL). HSL helps break down fat.... However, fat will also suppress HSL even when insulin levels are low. This means you will be unable to lose fat even when carbohydrate intake is low, if you are overeating on calories. If you ate no carbohydrate but 5,000 calories of fat, you would still be unable to lose fat even though insulin would not be elevated.
    that giant study with the charts, and the hp/lc or lp/hc is stupid. they compare 75g carbs to 125g carbs is ridiculous. anyone cutting is not going to eat 125g carbs in a meal.

    These studies are all aimed in a direction and are bias dont u think?

    I mean, wouldnt a good study be comparing two meals, 1) pure 30g carbs 2) 30g protein and then checking BS and Ins. levels?

    also look at the increments of the charts?!?! It goes from 12000 auc all the way down to 50auc on the very next chart "comparing insulin levels" of the whey protein, and the 600 calorie meal


    lol check out the scale for these two charts

    Insulin response to different types of protein
    How many pmol in 1 micromole? The answer is 1000000



    Here’s data from another study that looked at the insulin response to a meal that contained 485 calories, 102 grams of protein, 18 grams of carbohydrate, and almost no fat:
    again look at the AUCs compared to the 75 and 125g meal
    Last edited by Coach; 01-31-2011 at 04:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    k, how bout a study? people will write online articles on whatever gets peoples attention. you know how many articles there are about the benefits of Glutamine on body building? anyways.... i hate comments like this
    The article was based on a study...

    that giant study with the charts, and the hp/lc or lp/hc is stupid. they compare 75g carbs to 125g carbs is ridiculous. anyone cutting is not going to eat 125g carbs in a meal.
    Where did it say that the meal used was under the context of someone looking to lose weight? Even then the fact still remains; they increased the protein and actually reduced carbohydrate intake by 50 grams, and the insulin spike was greater.

    These studies are all aimed in a direction and are bias dont u think?
    The author is defending insulin for the bad name it has received from anti-carb nazis and paleo people. He did not do the research himself, so the article is bias, but the result of the research is not.

    I mean, wouldnt a good study be comparing two meals, 1) pure 30g carbs 2) 30g protein and then checking BS and Ins. levels?
    They did you 1 up, they compared 125g to 75g + 75g of protein.

    also look at the increments of the charts?!?! It goes from 12000 auc all the way down to 50auc on the very next chart "comparing insulin levels" of the whey protein, and the 600 calorie meal


    lol check out the scale for these two charts

    Insulin response to different types of protein




    again look at the AUCs compared to the 75 and 125g meal
    They're probably measuring insulin AUC versus Glucose AUC, and you have no idea what their terms of measurements on the axis of those graphs are. Are you loling about their colors, or the fact that you don't understand them?

    Coach, if you're gonna argue with me you're gonna need more than "lols" and taking data out of context to try to make it applicable to your argument to justify what you're saying.

    I gotta go home now... Catch you later. It was fun.
    Last edited by Mr. Shadow; 01-31-2011 at 05:09 PM.

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    Ambassador of pain Possum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shadow View Post
    The article was based on a study...



    Where did it say that the meal used was under the context of someone looking to lose weight? Even then the fact still remains; they increased the protein and actually reduced carbohydrate intake by 50 grams, and the insulin spike was greater.



    The author is defending insulin for the bad name it has received from anti-carb nazis and paleo people. He did not do the research himself, so the article is bias, but the result of the research is not.



    They did you 1 up, they compared 125g to 75g + 75g of protein.



    They're probably measuring insulin AUC versus Glucose AUC, and you have no idea what their terms of measurements on the axis of those graphs are. Are you loling about their colors, or the fact that you don't understand them?

    Coach, if you're gonna argue with me you're gonna need more than "lols" and taking data out of context to try to make it applicable to something else.

    I gotta go home now... Catch you later. It was fun.
    I find it funny that you refute his post based on his "lols" and then you just go and insult him about being attracted to the colour in the charts... I think the latter is even more immature.
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    The best part about it Possum, I could hardly care what you think about my response or me. I don't know you, we don't talk, or anything of the sort. As sad as it sounds, your personal opinions about me are meaningless to me.

    I didn't refute his posts by insulting him. I provided the facts. If they had increased protein intake along side an increase in carbs, then yes it would be silly. Instead they reduced 125g to 75g and then increased protein. Had they left carbs the same, the increase in insulin response still would have been there due to insulin response created by the protein.

    When someone asks you for a study to back what you say, its wise to refute the study with a contradicting study. Making arguments by manipulating context and looking at things incorrectly doesn't make you right or argue your point at all. I posted the link for educational purposes and he practically laughed at it, well he did laugh at it, and then posted nothing to argue his position.

    Immature or not, my response was such because of his. I like coach on a personal level, and I've never had a problem with him, but he blantantly disregarded anything in that article when I was trying to help him understand, and then he dismissed anything it had to offer before he had even read it.
    Last edited by Mr. Shadow; 01-31-2011 at 06:22 PM.

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    Yoke is the new Biceps BigJosh's Avatar
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    You could care less about what possum has to say yet you spend 4 paragraphs responding to him.
    Even if you have a good point here,but it makes it hard for people to learn from the information you provide when you begin posts with such petty, personal, and obviously untrue statements.
    Just saying, if you are right you are right, but don't say silly things like you don't care and then be worked up enough to write a lengthy post in response. It just degrades any useful information you are provided.
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    I'm not at all surprised that you came in here to say something to me... You always have something to say; don't you, BigJosh? You're awful hypocritical to say such a thing to me. I believe the last time you and I exchanged words you were in the process of name calling Palmer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz6682 View Post
    I read an article today that stated that an insulin spike caused by high GI carbs can be detremental to fat loss as it promotes fat storage. I am cutting at the moment but still adding dextrose to my post-workout shake.

    Is this a mistake on my part?
    High GI carbs have to be put into context which is where GI Load and other variables come in to play.

    You can eat High GI foods but not have enough of the food for the GI Load to be sufficiently high enough to even affect insulin levels.


    http://www.health.harvard.edu/newswe..._100_foods.htm

    ^^ Look at the entry for watermelon, it puts things into a bit more perspective.
    Last edited by 5kgLifter; 01-31-2011 at 06:59 PM.

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    Loading Swag [|||||100%] JarheadFMJ's Avatar
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    this thread is full of win.
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    Yoke is the new Biceps BigJosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shadow View Post
    I'm not at all surprised that you came in here to say something to me... You always have something to say; don't you, BigJosh? You're awful hypocritical to say such a thing to me. I believe the last time you and I exchanged words you were in the process of name calling Palmer.

    I was just trying to help you man. People would actually learn from the info you are providing if you didn't lead off your posts with such silly remarks.
    If you truly didn't care what people thought about you, you wouldn't take it so personal and wouldn't get so upset all the time.
    I am a member of a forum that thrives off people saying things, so yes, I have something to say. If no one said anything we wouldn't have much of a forum.
    "One of the worst things a young lifter can do is take advice from other beginners on message boards they usually have all the advice and none of the experience."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shadow View Post
    Where did it say that the meal used was under the context of someone looking to lose weight? Even then the fact still remains; they increased the protein and actually reduced carbohydrate intake by 50 grams, and the insulin spike was greater.
    That is true. So we know if you eat exactly 125g carbs, as opposed to 75g your insulin levels will be higher. But in that statement and fact, there are too many variables. If you know science, you HAVE to get down to the basics. Which is why i proposed the 30g carb vs 30g protein study.
    Because thats the point of insuiln "why does insulin get a bad name" well if insuilin is responsible fro BUILDING (fat or muscle) in the body, why would people on a bulking diet care about trying to keep their insulin levels down? This article has everything to do with cutting.

    The author is defending insulin for the bad name it has received from anti-carb nazis and paleo people. He did not do the research himself, so the article is bias, but the result of the research is not.
    Your right, but guess who created the charts, tables, and put the "study's info" into the article. THE AUTHOR. Humm now lets think.



    They're probably measuring insulin AUC versus Glucose AUC, and you have no idea what their terms of measurements on the axis of those graphs are. Are you loling about their colors, or the fact that you don't understand them?
    Seriously? Did you not read a single word of my post? Just look at the numbers on the side, and the scale of each graph!!!??!! I even broke down what the ratio of each measurement was. The graphs are deceiving, and you are a fool like everyone else who read the article. You just looked at the pretty diagram instead of ANALYZING it. I think its hilarious that you think im loling at the colors, when i simply state that the difference between the two are 1:1,000,000
    Coach, if you're gonna argue with me you're gonna need more than "lols" and taking data out of context to try to make it applicable to your argument to justify what you're saying.
    You must be blind or stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shadow View Post
    The best part about it Possum, I could hardly care what you think about my response or me. I don't know you, we don't talk, or anything of the sort. As sad as it sounds, your personal opinions about me are meaningless to me.

    I didn't refute his posts by insulting him. I provided the facts. If they had increased protein intake along side an increase in carbs, then yes it would be silly. Instead they reduced 125g to 75g and then increased protein. Had they left carbs the same, the increase in insulin response still would have been there due to insulin response created by the protein.
    The facts you provided is like saying "i beat you in a 1 mile race, so no matter what i HAD to have beat you the first 100 feet"
    When someone asks you for a study to back what you say, its wise to refute the study with a contradicting study. Making arguments by manipulating context and looking at things incorrectly doesn't make you right or argue your point at all. I posted the link for educational purposes and he practically laughed at it, well he did laugh at it, and then posted nothing to argue his position.

    Immature or not, my response was such because of his. I like coach on a personal level, and I've never had a problem with him, but he blantantly disregarded anything in that article when I was trying to help him understand, and then he dismissed anything it had to offer before he had even read it.
    Shaddow, do you realize that you were the one who made the strong statement, the bold post? The one where you BELIEVED protein produced an insulin spike just as significant as a carbohydrate would? In stead of calling you out, disagreeing with you, or simply telling you my belief, i asked you to back your belief. If the article had made sense, or provided solid evidence in favor of your belief, then my belief would have been in agreement. HOWEVER! I have seen that article MANY times. And i knew exactly what was wrong with it.

    I love how you say
    but he blantantly disregarded anything in that article when I was trying to help him understand, and then he dismissed anything it had to offer before he had even read it.
    because i quoted the article, brought in pictured from the article and even paraphrased it.
    Last edited by Coach; 01-31-2011 at 11:04 PM.

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    why fight over a forums over a study and stupid **** like that, nobody is perfect so stop fighting it makes the forums unpleasnt

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    Quote Originally Posted by dat111 View Post
    why fight over a forums over a study and stupid **** like that, nobody is perfect so stop fighting it makes the forums unpleasnt
    YEAH! What he said. I think.
    Living Large

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    Quote Originally Posted by dat111 View Post
    why fight over a forums over a study and stupid **** like that, nobody is perfect so stop fighting it makes the forums unpleasnt
    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster View Post
    YEAH! What he said. I think.
    We still havent came to a conclusion about protein related insulin spikes....

    in b4 Eric

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    Quote Originally Posted by dat111 View Post
    why fight over a forums over a study and stupid **** like that, nobody is perfect so stop fighting it makes the forums unpleasnt
    It's actually an interesting debate... and most who read this should not add to the gravity of what it simply is... a debate.

    Who doesn't enjoy a well versed argument?

    I truly don't believe Coach or Mr. Shadow in particular was other than gentlemanly considering they are backing their point of view, until...

    I suggest the use of smileys in the future, or more lols.
    1 Corinthians 13:4-7
    4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5kgLifter View Post
    High GI carbs have to be put into context which is where GI Load and other variables come in to play.

    You can eat High GI foods but not have enough of the food for the GI Load to be sufficiently high enough to even affect insulin levels.


    http://www.health.harvard.edu/newswe..._100_foods.htm

    ^^ Look at the entry for watermelon, it puts things into a bit more perspective.
    Nice work Babs, repped in due course
    Gaz

    "Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever." Lance Armstrong

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