Definition Question - Muscle Building & Natural Bodybuilding Forum

Tripper · 09-24-2006, 11:29 AM

Hey, I'm 15 years old, 6'3", 204lbs and I'm benching around a max of 186. I'd like to increase my benchpress, but I would also like to create a defined muscle mass, and not be really bulky. What sort of rep/set combinations should I do for definition? Or can I just work optimal strength with low reps and heavy weight and level off where I want?

Thanks.

inemtsev · 09-25-2006, 02:51 PM

How long have you been benchpressing so far? Are you comfortable with the technique? Few basics to bench:
1) Dont use false grip (thumb under the bar) grip the bar all the way around
2) The maximum grip, the maximum allowable grip width for powerlifting is 32 inches (81 cm) between the index fingers. This is approximately placing the index fingers on the last ticks of the bar
3) Do benchpress with quality all the way down and all the way up, dont take the cheap way out.
4) Learn to arch your back while benching, I personally did not know this before and my benchpress improved significantly within 1 month, once I learned how
5) Lowering the bar is different for everybody, but the general location is the nipple area
6) BREATHE OUT when you pushing the bar up, I get frustrated teaching people how to bench when they dont follow this rule

By the way how many reps can you do that 186, because when you MAX, that refers to your 1-REP maximum lift.

Because you are going for strength in benchpress, do 6-7 reps Maximum, starting with at least 60% of your maximum bench. Once you reply I will write you up my favorite benchpress routine. And because you want to tone as well, I suggest doing cardio on days that you are not doing any heavy lifting.

Good luck!

Tripper · 09-25-2006, 04:20 PM

Thanks a lot for the help, yeah 186 is my current 1 rep max. I'm doing 155(nearly 85% of my max), 6 reps, and 4-5 sets..Should I keep my sets at 4-5? or should I cut my sets to 3? what is best for strength in that sense?

Through the week I'm doing dumb-bell benchpress on Monday, then bar-bell on Friday. I'm interested to see your schedule. I'm trying to figure out what to do on which days to work the rest of my body (tris, biceps, lats etc..) I was doing some tricep workouts on the days I bench, is that a good idea or a bad idea?

Thanks for the input..

tadolfi · 09-25-2006, 04:51 PM

Tripper, you're not doing too bad for only 15 years old - I'd stay with the 85% if you are truly trying to gain strength. 3 sets will be fine.

As far as the definition - It won't happen while you're working on strength.

You will have to decide on one or the other for now.
At 204 lbs. and 6'3" I would advise getting a solid routine together to grow some size and then take a look at doing some "cutting" to get the definition.

I say this because increases in strength are motivational for starting out and this motivation will carry you better for cutting later.

Tripper · 09-25-2006, 07:50 PM

Alright, that sounds like a plan..

As far as cutting goes, I don't know too much about nutrition, so I'm not sure what kind of foods to load up on while I'm cutting and what foods to stay away from. I don't know when to start it...because as far as size..I'm getting pretty big already. I've been working out for maybe 6-8 months now. When should I start cutting? and what sort of foods am I looking to eat?

How do I know when to stop working strength for the best definition?

As far as a routine, well I'm not so sure about that either.
Would appreciate opinions and ideas about a good routine for cardio/strength workouts through the week. I workout everyday Monday to Friday.

inemtsev · 09-26-2006, 01:05 PM

You should vary your reps depending on the weight you are using look at:

My workout for chest day(with your 1 time max):

10x reps with bar as warm up
6x reps with 135lbs (a 45 each side)
5 reps with 155lbs (a 45 and 10 each side)
3 reps X 4 SETS with 165lbs (a 45 and 10 and 5 each side)

Then I would do chest press with dumb-bells: about 5-6 sets

Then incline benchpress: about 5-6 sets

Then I would kill the tricep with some close grip benchpress and pushdowns...

Thats my chest day for ya

As far as definition goes I would recommend doing cardio in between your work out days, stuff like cycling, jogging, swimming (DO THEM REGULARLY)

personally my week consists of:

SUNDAY: OFF
MONDAY: Chest all around, triceps
TUESDAY: 30 minute jogg, biceps
WEDNESDAY: Back, Legs, Shoulders
Thursday: 30 minute jogg, biceps
Friday: Chest all around, triceps
Saturday: OFF

Doug · 09-26-2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripper

Alright, that sounds like a plan..

As far as cutting goes, I don't know too much about nutrition, so I'm not sure what kind of foods to load up on while I'm cutting and what foods to stay away from. I don't know when to start it...because as far as size..I'm getting pretty big already. I've been working out for maybe 6-8 months now. When should I start cutting? and what sort of foods am I looking to eat?

How do I know when to stop working strength for the best definition?

As far as a routine, well I'm not so sure about that either.
Would appreciate opinions and ideas about a good routine for cardio/strength workouts through the week. I workout everyday Monday to Friday.

Tripper. please remember that at the age of 15 weight training at this young age puts you at risk for an injury. there is an inherent danger in strength training for young, growing bodies? Researchers have worried about stress on the immature musculoskeletal system. The epiphyseal plates, located at the ends of the long bones in the legs and arms, have not yet ossified, and are prone to injury when excessive stress is applied. These plates play an important role in bone growth and development. Research has found, however, that injury to the epiphyseal plates occurs primarily when inappropriately heavy loads are applied. So be carefull, make sure your routine is supervised by a properly qualified instructor.

With reference to when to start cutting, that is up to you, when you think that either you are big enough, or you have put on bodyfat through a mass building diet then you can start cutting, but you wont put muscle on whilst you are cutting. So it all depends on what your aim is

Doug · 09-26-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inemtsev

4) Learn to arch your back while benching, I personally did not know this before and my benchpress improved significantly within 1 month, once I learned how
Good luck!

Proper form Whilst Bench Pressing

The pressing phase begins as the weight is pushed toward the starting position. The lifter exhales as the muscles contract to control the ascent of the weight. The pressing phase concludes with the arms fully extended and the elbows locked. The muscles can only develop optimally if they exert controlled force through the entire range of motion.

Common errors during the press phase include: arching the back and lifting the feet from the floor. Arching the back is a cheating movement that is the result of a lifter attempting too heavy of a weight. The back arch allows the lifter to cheat by utilizing the force generated by the buttocks and hips to assist the chest in the lift.

The back arch places the bones and intervertibral disks at risk of injury. The back was not designed to arch in this exaggerated manner. When the lifter arches his/her back to compensate for a lack of strength, the intervertibral joints can sustain injury due to the combination of compressive and expansion forces simultaneously affecting the joints and disks.

Tripper · 09-26-2006, 04:06 PM

Okay, thanks for all the information. Based on what inemtsev said for a benchpress day, do you think I'd be alright to do that at 15? As long as I'm making sure I follow the proper technique outline and adjust the weight accordingly? As of growing...I hope my growing has stopped because I don't want to be much taller than 6' 3" and 204 pounds.

I have experienced my back arching when benchpressing before, and I figured it was something to do with the weight I had on, so I dropped some pounds and I was good.

What would you recommend Doug?

Doug · 09-26-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripper

Okay, thanks for all the information. Based on what inemtsev said for a benchpress day, do you think I'd be alright to do that at 15? As long as I'm making sure I follow the proper technique outline and adjust the weight accordingly? As of growing...I hope my growing has stopped because I don't want to be much taller than 6' 3" and 204 pounds.

I have experienced my back arching when benchpressing before, and I figured it was something to do with the weight I had on, so I dropped some pounds and I was good.

What would you recommend Doug?

5 - 10 mins warm up (bike, jogger, cycling)
5 mins stretching
warm up triceps, shoulders (very light)
1 set with no weight on bar. 15 reps (slow)
1 set with about 1/2 the weight you are going to use on the next set.

Then we are going to do a "giant set" 3 exercises 8 - 10 reps, no rest between the three exercises, once you have completed all three then have 2 minutes rest and complete the same thing over, another 3 - 4 times.
(1) Incline dumbell or barbell bench press
(2) Flat dumbell press
(3) Dips

5 mins stretching
5 - 10 mins cool down